Pilot was on-hand in Dallas and witnessed JFK Assassination, Interviews with Dave Hodges
Via the CommonSense Show:
In a wide-ranging interview on The Common Sense Show, host Dave Hodges sat down with Tosh Plumlee and co-author Ralph Pezzullo to discuss their book Deep Cover, Shallow Graves, a work that explores Plumlee’s decades-long involvement in covert operations and his perspective on some of the most controversial events in modern American history. The conversation centers on Plumlee’s claims about his career as a CIA-affiliated pilot, his experiences operating in highly sensitive environments, and his presence in Dallas on November 22, 1963, the day of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination.
Plumlee Explains how he got there
Throughout the discussion, Plumlee presents an overview of his background, describing how he became involved in clandestine aviation missions during the Cold War. He recounts flying operations that allegedly intersected with intelligence agencies, anti-Castro efforts, and various off-the-books assignments that blurred the line between official policy and deniable activity. Pezzullo, serving as co-author, provides narrative framing and context, explaining how the book was constructed from interviews, recollections, and supporting material intended to bring coherence to Plumlee’s long and complex story.
A significant portion of the interview focuses on Plumlee’s account of events in Dealey Plaza. He describes being in the vicinity during the assassination and offers his recollection of the atmosphere, movements, and confusion that unfolded in real time. His narrative emphasizes the presence of individuals he believed to be connected to intelligence or military operations, as well as unusual activity that he argues has not been fully explained in official accounts. While discussing these observations, Plumlee positions himself as both a participant in the broader intelligence world and a witness to a moment that has been subject to decades of scrutiny and debate.
The conversation also touches on the broader implications of Plumlee’s claims. Hodges prompts discussion about how such firsthand accounts fit into the larger body of research and controversy surrounding the Kennedy assassination. Plumlee and Pezzullo frame the book as an attempt to add another layer to the historical record, suggesting that certain aspects of covert operations culture during that era may help explain inconsistencies or unanswered questions. They present the narrative not only as a personal memoir but also as a lens through which readers can reconsider the dynamics of secrecy, compartmentalization, and unofficial actions during a tense geopolitical period.
Pezzullo elaborates on the writing process, noting the challenges of translating a lifetime of experiences into a structured narrative. He describes the effort to balance storytelling with documentation, aiming to produce a work that is both engaging and grounded in Plumlee’s recollections. The collaboration is portrayed as an effort to preserve a perspective that might otherwise be lost, particularly given the passage of time and the fading availability of firsthand witnesses to Cold War-era operations.
In addition to the assassination discussion, the interview broadens into themes explored in the book, including the nature of covert missions, the use of civilian contractors or loosely affiliated operatives, and the ambiguity that often surrounds intelligence work. Plumlee reflects on the culture of secrecy that defined his alleged career, suggesting that many operations were intentionally structured to allow plausible deniability. This, he argues, has contributed to enduring uncertainty around certain historical events, as official records may be incomplete or deliberately obscured.
Hodges guides the conversation toward the contemporary relevance of these issues, raising questions about how past covert practices might inform current public understanding of intelligence agencies and government transparency. Plumlee and Pezzullo suggest that examining historical cases can provide insight into how information is controlled and how narratives are shaped over time. They imply that revisiting these topics is important not only for historical clarity but also for fostering a more informed perspective on present-day institutions.
The tone of the interview remains exploratory, with an emphasis on presenting Plumlee’s account rather than conclusively resolving the debates it touches upon. The discussion acknowledges the controversial nature of the claims while focusing on the personal experiences and interpretations offered in the book. In doing so, it highlights the enduring fascination with the Kennedy assassination and the broader questions it raises about power, secrecy, and accountability.
Overall, the interview serves as a platform for introducing Deep Cover, Shallow Graves to a wider audience while summarizing its key themes. It provides a general overview of Plumlee’s alleged role in covert operations, his account of being present during a pivotal historical moment, and the collaborative effort to document these experiences in written form. The conversation underscores the complexity of reconciling personal testimony with established narratives and invites listeners to consider how individual perspectives contribute to the ongoing discourse surrounding one of the most studied events in American history.
