Via Caravan to Midnight, interview begins at the 1:40:27 mark:
The interview between Casey Fleming and John B. Wells centers on the core argument of ther former’s new book, The Red Tsunami, which presents a sweeping analysis of the Chinese Communist Party’s long-term strategy to weaken, divide, and ultimately dominate the United States and the broader Western world. Throughout the conversation, he frames the threat not as a conventional military conflict, but as a comprehensive, multi-domain campaign that operates largely below the threshold of open war.
The author explains that the “red tsunami” is a metaphor for the cumulative effect of decades of coordinated actions by the CCP, combining economic leverage, technological infiltration, information warfare, political influence operations, and cultural manipulation. He stresses that many Americans misunderstand the nature of the conflict because they continue to think in terms of Cold War-style standoffs, when in reality the CCP has pursued a far more subtle and patient approach. According to Fleming, this strategy has allowed China to embed itself deeply within Western supply chains, financial systems, academic institutions, media, and even government decision-making processes.
Fleming Talks Cognitive Warfare
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on cognitive warfare, which he describes as one of the most dangerous and least understood components of China’s strategy. He argues that shaping perceptions, influencing narratives, and eroding trust in institutions are far more effective than tanks or missiles. He outlines how social media, entertainment, corporate messaging, and political polarization can be exploited to weaken national cohesion, making societies easier to manipulate and control without firing a shot. Wells presses his guest on how this warfare manifests in everyday life, and Fleming emphasizes that confusion, apathy, and internal division are not accidental byproducts but intended outcomes.
The interview also addresses economic dependency and supply chain vulnerabilities. Fleming details how offshoring critical manufacturing to China has created strategic choke points that could be exploited during a crisis. He warns that reliance on adversarial nations for pharmaceuticals, rare earth minerals, electronics, and infrastructure components represents a national security risk that has been largely ignored in favor of short-term profits. Fleming underscores that economic warfare is inseparable from national security and that disentangling from China will require difficult but necessary decisions.
Geopolitics plays a central role in the conversation as well. Fleming discusses China’s alliances and partnerships with other authoritarian regimes, including Russia, Iran, and North Korea, arguing that these relationships form an interconnected challenge to the existing global order. He suggests that these regimes share a common interest in undermining Western norms, democratic governance, and U.S. leadership. Fleming cautions that focusing on any one adversary in isolation misses the broader strategic alignment taking place.
Wells and Fleming also explore the role of elites and institutions in enabling the current situation. Fleming contends that political, corporate, and academic leaders have often underestimated or dismissed the threat, sometimes out of naïveté and sometimes due to self-interest. He argues that this failure of leadership has contributed to a dangerous complacency, leaving the public ill-prepared for the scale and sophistication of the challenge.
Despite the sobering analysis, Fleming does not present the situation as hopeless. He emphasizes that awareness is the first and most critical step toward resilience. By recognizing the nature of the threat, strengthening domestic manufacturing, protecting critical infrastructure, and rebuilding cultural confidence, Fleming believes the United States can reverse course. He stresses the importance of informed citizens, accountable leadership, and a renewed focus on national sovereignty and strategic clarity.
The interview concludes with Fleming reinforcing the central message of The Red Tsunami: that the greatest danger facing America is not sudden collapse, but gradual erosion. The threat is incremental, cumulative, and often invisible, which is precisely why it has been so effective. Fleming urges listeners to move beyond partisan lenses and understand the challenge as a civilizational one, requiring unity, vigilance, and long-term thinking to confront and overcome.
